Jurors speak out on Kathy Phillips verdict

by Sarah Rice (srice@wsbt.com)

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Kathy Phillips murder trial

Kathy Phillips smiles on her way out of the courtroom after being found not guilty of murder and neglect. (WSBT photo)

LAPORTE — Described as one of their toughest decisions ever, members of a LaPorte County jury talked about finding a mother not guilty of murdering and neglecting a newborn baby.

The prosecuting attorney says she was disappointed by the outcome, but the lack of evidence hurt their case.

A DNA geneticist testified earlier in the week there was a 99.99 percent chance Kathy and Garry Phillips were the parents of the dead baby. But Phillips' family says she was never pregnant.

Her attorney said the only explanation that counts is the jurors'.

“I think the jury tried to strive for justice,” said Rich Cook, Kathy Phillips’ attorney. “That's what I asked and I think they accomplished it.”

“It's been a long, long time. She's been crucified. She's been accused of things that did not take place at all,” said Marcia Ruminski, Kathy’s mother. “And the only way that we could get through this is knowing that the good Lord was watching over us and his hand was in on this.”

Kathy Phillips and her husband didn't comment after Thursday morning's verdict. But Thursday afternoon we spoke with some of the people behind the decision.

The two jurors who spoke to WSBT News describe this trial as difficult and emotional. While they're glad it's over, they say it's something they won't be able forget.

Tears of joy filled the faces of Kathy Phillips and her family as they left the courthouse early Thursday morning. But for jurors like Darla Mitchell it was tears of sadness.

“This was the hardest thing I think anybody would have had to do,” she told WSBT News.

Mitchell was one of 12 jurors who found Kathy Phillips not guilty on murder and neglect charges. She says based on the evidence presented by the prosecution, she had no other choice.

“They could not prove that baby took a breath,” she explained. “They told us that there’s no test to prove that the heart was beating. It’s just like a Catch-22 — you’re stuck in the middle.”

Jurors deliberated for nine hours, describing it as a rollercoaster of emotions.

“I would say every woman on that jury convulsively collapsed,” said juror Fred Sachtleben.

Sachtleben says he was able to hold back tears … but not for long.

“This morning, when I was able to talk, as happens, you just kind of break down and sob,” he said.

Sachtleben says he wasn’t just sad; he was frustrated.

“We, the jury, were unable to ask questions that we would have thought, ‘Why didn’t the prosecution ask about those questions?’” he explained.

Sachtleben and Mitchell say they have no doubt Kathy Phillips was pregnant and that the baby was hers. They say that's what makes the outcome so difficult.

“It’s hard for everybody, I think, I truly do,” Mitchell said. “But she has to live with what she did."

“A child has been definitely deprived of life,” Sachtleben said. “Whatever that life might have been is really immaterial. But a life was definitely taken in a heinous way.”

Sachtleben says he had many questions regarding the crime scene. But he says because the prosecution did not touch on some of the specifics, those questions couldn't be answered.

While it was a very difficult case from the beginning, these two jurors said the day the prosecution's case started was particularly difficult. That's when they showed the graphic pictures of the baby.

Monday, Jul 28 at 6:54 PM wait a minute wrote ...

can't they get her on improper burial...or improper reporting of a deceased human being? Mothers who throw their babys in dumpsters get put in jail....and I'm not talking about abortion...i'm talking about just throwing them in the dumpster still alive and leave them there to die because they don't want it.....sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick

Monday, Jul 28 at 1:10 PM JJK wrote ...

ok even if the poor baby never took a breath that gave the mother the right to place her in a bag and throw her in a field i dont think so somebody needs to place both him and her in a bag and dispose of them they both dont deserve to LIVE.

Sunday, Jul 27 at 6:25 PM bonnie wrote ...

i think it is sad that she didn't get any time in jail for muder or anything else at that. if somebody else did that they would be in jail or prison for that. i hope that they don't have any children at all. i have 3 kids i woundn't do that to my kids i love them with all my heart.

Sunday, Jul 27 at 3:57 PM MM wrote ...

OH SHE'S A MURDERER AND THE HUSBAND IS AN ACCOMPLICE. sounds like the prosecution BLEW the case. makes me want to go to laporte and start a crime spree.won't get put in jail.anybody want to join me?lol?

Sunday, Jul 27 at 10:01 AM Sabrina wrote ...

Murder and Neglect....Murder ?; but neglect...if she was pregnant and did not receive proper OB care that is neglect on the baby, if she delivered that baby at home and did not call for assistance,or take the (stillborn?) to the hospital or call for help again...that is neglect...if her or her husband disposed of a baby like they would a dirty diaper that is neglect....Not sure what circumstances the jury were given on neglect charges but sounds to me that this all falls under neglect! Murder?

Sunday, Jul 27 at 8:01 AM Shame on you,Kathy wrote ...

This whole family is screwed up and think they are above everyone else. Well guess maybe they are now? I can't believe a "MOM" would do something like this to "her" baby alive or dead!!! And then smile about it. God has taken care of Baby Jane and will take care of Kathy and her family as well.

Saturday, Jul 26 at 11:00 PM Lo in Cincy wrote ...

Remember the Peterson case- murder of the unborn child. Remember "legal abortion"- legally getting rid of an unborn child.Screwed up society...Ultimately, God will sort it out. End of story.

Saturday, Jul 26 at 8:06 PM ron wrote ...

So she was only guilty of dumping a dead baby in a garbage bag by the side of the road,geez why not just put it in the trash to get picked up weekly? then they would never know......

Saturday, Jul 26 at 6:33 PM heart sick mama wrote ...

Its sad it may not have been murder, may have been stillborn at home all alone. Why was 911 not called? Oh thats right cause It was not her baby. DNA says it was, genetictists testified it was 99.99 but they are all lying, that was botched up too. She knew a nurse,that said she looked preggo, saw home video of her heavier but thats lying too. of course they are all gonna stick together with their story blood is thicker than water Wondering if the devil is in her smiling about her dead baby

Saturday, Jul 26 at 8:30 AM kat wrote ...

did you ever think that this whole mess was bloched from the beginning. first of all a doctor can tell if a woman has had a miscarraige, abortion, or been pregnent before. Why didn't a doctor testify? That would of taken care of that answer if she was pregnent or not. Next why would they have called the police their selves and not just bury the baby instead of leaving it in a bag where it could seen by all.Not enough questions where answered by police because they couldn't answer them.

Saturday, Jul 26 at 2:03 AM bryce wrote ...

The DNA evidence proved that it was her and her husbands child! And if she didn't get help when she was having the baby neglect? If the baby was dead or alive when it came into this world, she still murdered it. She could have tried to help it, or something. This is just sad. I can't wait to see this on Forensic Files or something like that. They will find more evidence, and find other charger to tri her with.

Saturday, Jul 26 at 1:39 AM Cheryl wrote ...

It is indeed a sad commentary on the state of mankind when someone can dispose of a child, whether it was stillborn or alive, like she was yesterdays garbage!! I feel for the jurors as I think they made the only choice they could, due to the charges presented and the evidence (or lack thereof). We should all keep their other children in our prayers, I think the poor babes are going to need all the help they can get with those two for parents! May God have mercy on them.

Saturday, Jul 26 at 12:11 AM Ruby wrote ...

What do you expect when there is no respect left for human life. Hundreds of women abort babies everyday and some are partial birth. But that's OK.

Friday, Jul 25 at 10:56 PM on who sat on the jury wrote ...

i know she had that baby girl, she knows she had that babe girl and her hubby and mom knows too. that whole family is evil. god had a plan for babe jane dow, and one of them was not to be in a evil family like there's. but i am sure god has a plane for that evil family too, and i thank god for that. babe jane dow my heart is with you....

Friday, Jul 25 at 9:30 PM Kristin wrote ...

This is such an awful story! Even if the baby never took a breathe what the heck was it doing in a field in a trash bag?? This lady has no heart! She is a murderer!!

Friday, Jul 25 at 6:51 PM Nancy wrote ...

This is seriously so wrong. Who was the prosecutor? DNA is all they needed . Who raised those two? Does this couple work? I hope they won't ever be able to work or even exist. They won;t be too popular in this area. Horrible story,poor baby. But on the other hand,that baby would have been abused later on down the road by her parents.

Friday, Jul 25 at 6:42 PM Cynthia wrote ...

They will get what they deserve. Why even use DNA I mean 99.9 % I hope they are not working and aren't around children. I hope they don't get pregnant again.

Friday, Jul 25 at 5:20 PM Dorothy wrote ...

My question is this. Was the baby full term and what did it weigh? It sounds like she starved herself in attempt to hide the pregnancy and probably to try and induce a miscarriage.The baby may have been stillborn due to her lack of nutrition and medical care. No excuses just a thought, she still is guilty

Friday, Jul 25 at 3:54 PM Lisa wrote ...

even if the baby was stillborn doesnt mean that she can throw it out like trash..and thats the worse part..besides lieing saying the baby wasnt hers.. the baby was still flesh of her flesh.. i think she need medical help..

Friday, Jul 25 at 2:49 PM Ted wrote ...

Any woman who gives birth to a stillborn is traumatized. Prosecutors, not judges, decide whether any particular case will give them publicity so they can run for office. The DuPage County Illinois prosecutor has made a career of it. For a prosecutor to charge a woman with murder when there is no evidence of murder, is a gross injustice, traumatic for the woman, and very costly for the taxpayers. The jurors saw through it.

Friday, Jul 25 at 2:08 PM Jon Mitchell wrote ...

Did the prosecution drop the ball?

Friday, Jul 25 at 1:54 PM Same wrote ...

It has been proven that the baby is deffinately theirs. Do you think they will do the right thing and finally put a head stone upon their baby's grave or will they coninue deny the baby. That in itself says it all. They will get what is coming to them.

Friday, Jul 25 at 12:51 PM Winners wrote ...

Do you people read the full story before commenting? The jurors confirmed that they have no doubt that she was pregnant and that the baby was hers! Unfortunately, there is no crime for being pregnant and the charges that were brought were "beyond a reasonable doubt".

Friday, Jul 25 at 11:50 AM Anon. wrote ...

To all of you who find it so tragic that the baby was put in a trash bag and thrown out like garbage. Explain to me the differance in what they did and taking the body of an aborted baby and putting it in a trash bag and throwing it in a dumpster as medical waste!!! What they did was no different than a woman having an abortion except for the fact that their baby was probably still born and not murdered!!!

Friday, Jul 25 at 11:06 AM question... wrote ...

So, since the child never took a breath outside the womb it is not murder - would that make it ok to go punch a pregnant woman in the stomach (get charged with assault) and kill the child in the womb - but since it never took a breath outside of the womb, you should be charge for murder of that "fetus". It is obvious that Kathy never wanted this child to breath outside - so she murdered this baby girl while it was in her womb -she knew what she had to do, after all she did work as a legal aid.

Friday, Jul 25 at 11:03 AM tob wrote ...

Hey whaaaaa, stop crying about it! I did find guilty but 3 other egg heads said he was innocent...mistrial the evidence was not the best the cops came off as cocky and the prosecution could have done a better job.

Friday, Jul 25 at 10:38 AM dr wrote ...

The prosecution took the wrong angle on this one. Murder was not provable, but the FACT that she was pregnant and did have this baby was. I see a lot of people on here that are focusing on the verdict as if that means this woman was never pregnant! Am I missing something? She was pregnant, this baby was hers, and the baby is dead... and there are no consequences?

Friday, Jul 25 at 10:16 AM you people scare me wrote ...

First of all, proving by DNA that the child was their's DOES NOT MEAN SHE KILLED THIS CHILD. Until you have all walked in her shoes you have no idea what you would do in the same situation, maybe she panicked when the baby was still born did that ever occur to any of you??? you people really need move on and remember there but by the grace of God go you and yours.

Friday, Jul 25 at 9:29 AM A wrote ...

been made to pay for the immoral way of burying that poor child.... throwing it out like yesterdays garbage.... they certainly should have made her pay for that, the jury most definately believed it was her child n more than obvious on disposal of the baby n that treatment!!! hopefully she will have nothing but rest of her life to suffer within her own body n mind4 the treatment of that child n have all her nights sleepless with horrible nightmares of what she did!!! herfamily 2 4 their parts!!!

Friday, Jul 25 at 9:26 AM Anonymous wrote ...

To Caroljena: ARe you serious? You must be a friend or family memeber to defend such an evil person

Friday, Jul 25 at 9:24 AM A wrote ...

i dont blame the jury unfortunately they had to decide on only two things, neglect and murder... the case could not without doubt prove the baby alive therefore how could either of those things be guilty... i am not saying i dont believe she is guilty, she is guiltier than sin!!! i do blame the prosecutors office, solely! they should have had multiple charges stemming from minor things all the way up to murder and neglect! the outcome on those 2 would be the same but she would have at least been

Friday, Jul 25 at 9:01 AM R. wrote ...

Just waiting on the new trend where crackheads are going to hide their pregnancy and then toss their babies out in the back yard because hey we cant prove it was alive when it was born so they are not guilty of anything.

Friday, Jul 25 at 8:50 AM whaaaaa, stop crying about it! wrote ...

tob, they were let go because you were on the jury...YOU didn't find them guilty, not the cops! Who's this higher judge you people take of? nobody else will judge her, she is not guilty and that's that! Lets get all worked up over the gas prices, and leave this innocent woman alone. Kathy, hold your head up high you hottie. This will all pass, it always does. someone will do something that will make these do gooders mad and they will forget all about you. If it don't work out w/ your man call me

Friday, Jul 25 at 8:35 AM Donna South Bend wrote ...

I am saddened that someone could discard a baby alive or not in a field; she put enough effort to put the baby in a trash bag. She lied out of the gate by saying she was never pregnant. She can smile in every picture but when she lays her head down at night I am sure she remembers her baby's face and she will aways have to live with what she has done. With a mother like that I am sure the baby is in a much better place anyway.

Friday, Jul 25 at 8:17 AM Myrt wrote ...

To Elkhart: The jury did their jobs and if you read the story which obviously you didn't; you will see they are just as frustrated as the public. Don't blame them,they aren't allowed to know everything that was reported and had to decide the case on what information they had. They couldn't prove that Baby Jane was a live birth. That is REASONABLE DOUBT. DNA did nothing but prove Garry and Kathy were the parents, NOT whether the baby lived after birth.

Friday, Jul 25 at 6:52 AM Sick of deception wrote ...

Her family live in DENIAL! They originally were looking for a young girl who freaked out after having a baby, and she left it. Instead, they found the mother, and she was the DEVIL. Praying to God for forgiveness is great, but if you still live in DENIAL, does it count? I find it laughable that her mom thinks she was crucified. That is actually what she deserved. The jury couldn't find her guilty, not by their gut instinct that she was innocent, but due to a breath not taken. Sleep well Kathy.

Friday, Jul 25 at 6:06 AM tob wrote ...

Another likely guilty person let off because of inept police / prosecution. I was on a jury once and a guilty man was let free for the same reason. At least they know how to give honest people speeding tickets ;-)

Friday, Jul 25 at 12:46 AM Lisa wrote ...

too late doob.. i think she had another baby.. which is way funny cuz she aint fit to be a mother again.. it doesnt matter if the baby was died or alive.. it thats fact that she dumped it like yesterday trash and thats what makes it sick to think she would put the baby in a trash bag and then dump it off.. she off in the head is my book and cant they get her for illegally dumping the baby's body that way..and way to go jennifer evans.. mr. beckman should have handled the case instead of u..

Thursday, Jul 24 at 11:31 PM kmo wrote ...

I think that saddest thing is that we live in a culture of death. The fact that it boiled down to whether or not the baby took a breath is just sad. Does that mean if somehow she prevented the head from coming out there was no breath? Is that ok to do? I wasn't in the courtroom so I don't know the details but there is something wrong with the legal system that she couldn't have been held accountable. I'm very sad for everyone. PS. she was pregnant during the early parts of this case.

Thursday, Jul 24 at 11:22 PM cl wrote ...

seriously folks, DNA does lie...when it is collected and analyzed incorrectly which was a real possibility in this case. The reason the prosecution had no evidence is because eveything the sherriff's department did was wrong or against procedure related to the crime scene. Everything! So its no wonder that the DNA evidence was bumbled too. ANd the Phillpis have 2 children...one was just born within the last year and this girl gets as big as a house when pregnant...she can't hide prganacies.

Thursday, Jul 24 at 11:00 PM Susan wrote ...

You've got to be Freaking kidding me!!! Not Guilty!! Puhleaze!!! (Don't anyone tell me I can't spell!!) What a miscarriage of justice! I hope these two monsters are happy with themselves! May their child rest in peace. I wonder if they'll actually accept that it is theirs, or are they sticking with that .01% that it's not theirs.

Thursday, Jul 24 at 11:00 PM i wish i drive a cab wrote ...

If she is innocent, justice was served...if she is guilty, she will have to answer to a higher judge...and that my friend, is immpossible to avoid. I pray that somehow we can have answers for this innocent angle "baby jane" she deserves a name to say the least.

Thursday, Jul 24 at 10:58 PM to "elkhart" wrote ...

"elkhart". . .Shame on you for criticizing the jury! Obviously you don't understand "beyond a reasonable doubt". Just read the juror's comments in the article, the Prosecution did not do their job!! They did not prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, which is what our judicial system requires. Thank you to the Juror's for doing their job and not doing the Prosecution's job for them.

Thursday, Jul 24 at 10:48 PM Sad Mom wrote ...

I can understand that the jury didn't have enough evidence to convict her of murder. I CAN'T understand how someone can continue to lie about having a baby and leaving in a trash bag like it was garbage... and to always be smiling! It truly sickens me to the core. I am so glad that I don't live anywhere near this sickening family of liars. And for Kathy's mother to say that 'God had His hand...' Either we have been totally lied to or this mother is an idiot!!!! I am guessing the latter is true.

Thursday, Jul 24 at 10:48 PM Nat wrote ...

It is indisputable at this point that child was theirs [DNA]. I understand not being able to prove the child was alive outside the womb for the murder charge, but there MUST be accountability for Phillips not taking the necessarily prenatal care and delivery of this child. That is being GUILTY of neglect. The jurors blew this one.

Thursday, Jul 24 at 10:38 PM Caroljean wrote ...

She's not guilty. What's wrong with you stupid people. Get a life of your own!

Thursday, Jul 24 at 10:13 PM Observer wrote ...

So what this case came down to wasn't guilty, or not-guilty, it was a matter of "is she evil, or just stupid". In recent weeks we had the woman who stole gas and ran over the attendant come forward, as well as the motorist who killed a bicyclist on Cleveland Road. Now, in her case, how could she have just discarded the baby without any remorse at all?

Thursday, Jul 24 at 9:39 PM Karen wrote ...

I understand why the jury made the decision they did....but is there no ccrime they can be charged with for "disposing of the body" they way did? Isn't that a crime?

Thursday, Jul 24 at 9:36 PM Jodi wrote ...

To the jury, I'm so sorry you had to go through this. I have sat on a jury for a "medical case" that resulted in death, and that was hard, I can't imagine what you must be going through. It is a catch 22 for all involved.

Thursday, Jul 24 at 9:13 PM A very pissed off reader wrote ...

I find this stupid. The wench got off on some crime she should have been convicted of. If it werent her child, how in the HELL would the DNA show it were? Those tests don't lie, and its total BS. Its not fair to that poor child that he/she couldn't have life. True, that baby may have been stillborn, BUT she should have taken it somewhere to be examined, or to a hospital or something. This whole story is fishy and I think she did not get what she deserved

Thursday, Jul 24 at 8:34 PM Are You Kidding? wrote ...

She did it!!! Just look at all the footage of her smiling and laughing to and from court. Definitely not how a mother who has lost a child would be acting, especially while being the accused. Our justice system has failed yet again!

Thursday, Jul 24 at 8:33 PM elkhart wrote ...

i hope these jurors have nightmare every night for the rest of their lifes ..reagardless if the baby was dead or alive when put in the field the baby was a human being and to throw the baby away like that like garbage is unforgivable ...and to see this loser smile and carry on like nothing it's very very sad

Thursday, Jul 24 at 8:27 PM Chris wrote ...

Congratulations to the jury. They listened well and did the right thing. This case should never have been prosecuted. How can you charge someone with murder if no one can say a murder occurred? I didn't know the defendant and I don't know why she keeps insisting that she never had a baby, she obviously did. However, the burden of proof was not met, no evidence whatsover of a murder.

Thursday, Jul 24 at 7:53 PM doob wrote ...

so first her defense is that she was never pregnant... then when it comes out that there is a 99.99% chance that she and her husband are the parents, the defense becomes, you cant prove the baby ever took a breath. Hope these two never have children again. Real nice couple.

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